theboondork's RV blog

Parker sand dunes

2/8/2018

The sand dunes are actually a very big area but this is where most people Park or boondock

I drove up to Parker this morning partly to buy a few groceries and partly to revisit an area I had been to before called the Parker sand dunes.

The Parker sand dunes are a BLM boondocking area and off-road vehicle riding area about 10 miles from Parker, which I had visited about two years ago but didn't stay, I just made a video and left.

But this morning I got to thinking about the place and thought maybe I should go boondock there for a few days and have some fun on the little Beta motorcycle. Since I hadn't seen it for a while I figured I would drive the truck their first and see if it had changed much in the two years since I had been there.

The first thing I noticed was part of the paved road that goes out there was in really bad shape. After I started driving on it it rattled my memory enough to recall that it wasn't in very good shape the first time I drove on it and now it was substantially worse.

I have always adhered to the philosophy that whenever I'm going to a place that has "sand" in the name, or a name that even implies "sand" it should be checked out very carefully and not while pulling a trailer. And that was the main reason for not taking the Arctic Fox with me this morning.

There's a couple of big parking or boondocking areas that are stable and easily drivable once you get there, but there's some other areas that look more solid than they really are, and in one instance I had to put the truck in four-wheel-drive to get back on solid ground.

Now I'm quite sure I wouldn't have had to use four-wheel-drive if I had a normal on and off road tire on the truck, but my Michelin ribbed highway tires with 80 PSI in them is the exact opposite of what you need for driving on soft ground so I have to be very careful when leaving the pavement.

All of that means that I'm going to have to give the Parker sand dunes trip some careful consideration to determine if it's worth it to subject the truck and the Arctic Fox to the bad road and a minimal chance of getting stuck in the sand just for some motorcycle riding.... But then again I could use a change of scenery.

theboondork

BLM boondocking area Parker Arizona sand dunes

Parker Arizona sand dunes BLM boondocking

This is part of the boondocking area

18 Comments

Barney Ward

2/8/2018 03:57:54 pm

Some experience I had for your consideration. My trailer will float on sand that my 4x4 truck had some trouble with without the trailer in tow. But with the trailer in tow, the extra drag caused the old 4x4 truck to dig into the surface much easier even in 4x4 mode. Backing up with the trailer is even much worse. This was all with my 2500 4x4 chevy. With the current wimp truck I would not consider any loose surface while towing. Your situation will be a bit different since your fifth wheel adds a huge bigger load to the rear wheels of your truck. Be careful or just have a tow truck standing by to pull you out.

theboondork

2/8/2018 04:43:52 pm

That's excellent advice and distilling it down I think it means that you never know if you can drive out of a sandy situation in less it's an area you've been in before, or you have a vehicle specially equipped to drive on soft surfaces and even then it's wise to have some friends along that can pull you out.

I have an inordinate fear of soft sand and earned that fear the hard way. And to make matters worse this is the first time in my life I've had a truck with ribbed highway tires on it, which is the reason I try to give sand, snow, and mud a wide berth.

With four-wheel-drive and good tires I used to consider those things a playground but the first time I tried to drive on a little bit of sand with my Michelin's I was absolutely astounded by the lack of traction a ribbed tire has.

But I have plenty of time think about what to do, I wouldn't consider going over there during the weekend I'd probably get run over by a quad. But at least there would be plenty of people around to pull me out of the sand.

Tom.... Living in single digit humidity that's toooo low to need a dehumidifier.

Tim

2/9/2018 07:22:02 am

Hi Tom - Been meaning to ask if you have 4X4 on your truck and if you recommend it. Looks like this post answers those questions. Is there much point in having a winch out in the desert?

2/9/2018 09:56:33 am

As is often the case my answer will have to be.... It depends.

It all depends on what type of boondocking you're going to do, what type of vehicle you're boondocking in, how fearless you are, your driving skills, and how much insurance you have.

To me there are three basic categories of boondocker's if you're like me and boondock alone in a 13,000 pound 30 foot trailer pulled by a 7200 pound truck.

Number one boondocker stays with the crowds and only boondocks in a place where there's 4 or 5 other people and has obviously been used by boondocker's before.

Number two boondocker, and this would be the category where I would put myself, boondocks in places where others have boondocked before but prefers to be alone or almost alone and tends to put safety ahead of serenity.

Boondocker number three enjoys breaking new ground and loves telling people about the places he's boondocked that no one's ever heard of.

Now that I've laid out some parameters here is the answer to your question.

Number one boondocker has no need for a four-wheel-drive or a winch. In the very remote chance he gets stuck there's plenty of people around to help him out.

Boondocker number two, using my own situation as an example. I have never needed a winch. And if you think about the size of winch it would take to pull 20,000 pounds out of the sand it would probably be too heavy to hang on the front of my truck. As for the four-wheel-drive I have used it on very few occasions and if I had more suitable tires I probably wouldn't have needed it at all. And for the most part it's like my handgun, it just gives me a warm fuzzy feeling knowing it's there.

Boondocker number three will need a winch, four-wheel-drive, and a psychiatrist.

Tom

2/9/2018 12:30:55 pm

Thanks Tom - As usual, great information. Just beginning the early stages of truck looking and have been considering whether a 4X4 was worth it, considering the extra weight and complexity; I do plan on getting the fifth wheel first before the truck, so part of it will depend on what I end up with (although the more I look, the better the 27-5L looks).

For me, it will probably be baby steps. Plan to start in state, national, and limited number of RV parks. Once I feel comfortable with that, then move on to the "Number One Boondocker" category and eventually "Number Two Boondocker". I'm not courageous enough to ever be a "Number Three" (plus too cheap to get a psychiatrist).

Good point about the weight of the entire rig and the winch that would be required. I guess it might be something to have for exploring without the fifth wheel, but doesn't look like too many things to hook onto out in the desert (but maybe useful in the forest). However, when I did have a work truck in the past with four wheel drive and a winch, I tended to get in over my head in situations because I felt I could get out of anything (like the time I got stuck in the middle of a pasture without a tree in sight - humbling experience).

Hope you are still dodging the flu successfully.

2/9/2018 01:28:24 pm

Since I hunted in the Colorado high country for deer and elk for many years and have driven on many Jeep trails and often cross country to retrieve downed animals I don't ever remember having to use a winch.

With four-wheel-drive, posi-traction, and the proper tires our trucks took us everywhere we needed to go. By the way in Colorado the definition of a hunting vehicle is, "somebody else's truck".

In Colorado the people wearing winches on the front of their trucks usually fell into two categories.

Category one consisted of guys that went off road looking for trouble and hoping to get stuck so they could tell their friends how gnarly the road was.

The other category was guys in jacked up shiny trucks with four foot tall tires that have never been on a dirt road in their lives.

I am indeed still flu free, knock on wood. I've been to Walmart twice in Parker and so far I'm still feeling great, but flu season is not over yet so I'm continuing to wear my Hazmat underwear.

Since you're taking baby steps and obviously researching full time RVing in your spare time, your chances of having a painless, happy, and successful transition into that lifestyle is going to be far greater than someone who has to jump in quickly with both feet because of personal or financial problems.

So keep researching, keep learning and by the time you hitch up and start driving down the road it will be an exciting experience instead of a scary one.

Tom

2/9/2018 02:03:06 pm

So true - always like other people's vehicles when I do any kind of hunting. Can't imagine trying to get a big elk out of the mountains.

When I had the winch and four wheel drive work truck, I was required to go into some pretty tough areas. After a few years, I also carried an ATV in the back of the truck and quickly learned that if I had any doubts about a road or trail, it was better to take the time to unload the ATV than to risk getting the truck stuck. Figured if worse came to worse and couldn't get the ATV out of a bad spot, I could always walk back to the truck and come back for the ATV later (luckily, never had to do that). That was back in my twenties - at my age now, I have no desire to deal with stuck trucks or ATV's, unless absolutely necessary.

I hope you're right about the transition to full time RVing. The biggest risk right now is probably getting "research burn out", but it's not quite the right time yet to go (but getting close).

I had an interesting e-mail string with Kyle at RVer Insurance and they've added an insurance program that should be great. It does require continuing to work some, but that could be on a blog, doing photography, campground hosting, etc and there's no minimum salary requirement. As long as it's something fun, can be done while traveling, and can set my own hours, I'm all for it. Still have a few more years to go until Medicare kicks in.

2/9/2018 04:12:43 pm

I have found that the best way to get an Elk out of the mountains is to shoot it in a place that's possible to drive to. If you hike out into the wilderness and shoot one you've got a whole Lotta work ahead of you skinning it, butchering it, and packing it out piece at a time. Which is why Elk hunting is a multi-man job. Keeping all that in mind, whenever we had a new guy hunting with us sooner or later he would ask, if I get hurt how am I gonna get out of here? And we would always say, don't worry will get you out of here no matter how many trips it takes.

I know how that research burnout feels, it happens to me all the time, I get to the point where the more information I get the more confused I become, and there gets to be so many pros and cons that I can't make a decision. And that's when I have to stop thinking for a while and give my brain a chance to collate all the information and then after a few days things look a little bit clearer, or I've forgotten everything so it doesn't matter anymore.

Tom

2/12/2018 12:59:16 pm

My mind changes about what I want and think about the future on a daily basis (literally). As my grandfather used to say, I'm like a goose and wake up in a new world everyday. I think I'm going to have to play a kind of Russian Roulette and say that however I feel on some particular future date is what I'm going to do, no matter how I feel that day (sure hope it's not to give away all my stuff and join a monastery or go on that Space X mission to Mars).

Seems like the best thing to do for Elk Hunting is to lure him into the butcher's somehow and shoot him there - anything else seems like a whole lot of work.

2/12/2018 02:31:56 pm

I like the goose analogy, I can relate to that. Leave it to a grandfather to come up with something folksy that actually relates to the real world.

The full-time RV lifestyle is made for people who want change in their life, even if it's on a daily basis. The only thing that doesn't change is the bed you sleep in, the rest of your life just rotates around it.

Other than being wealthy and having the money to do whatever you want every day I can't think of another lifestyle like full time RVing that allows you to make whatever changes you want in your life that you can afford. And that includes selling the RV and moving into an apartment.

Sometimes sooner or later we all have to face a change in our life that might be somewhat frightening, it could be getting married, or retiring, or throwing caution to the wind and moving into an RV. But whatever it is we have to decide whether to fish or cut bait. I just had to throw in that folksy cliché.

As I've mentioned before I think for a lot of men retiring may be almost as difficult to deal with as a death in the family. For some guys their job is their life, their self-worth, and the reason they get up in the morning. And the thought of no longer having a job and being nonproductive turns there world upside down. And deep inside they feel they will no longer have a purpose or the respect they once had from the community.

I've been at jobs and watched people retire and what struck me the most was outwardly it was a happy occasion but if you looked in their eyes all you saw was fear.

Some of the fear was obviously the thought of facing a new life, or the fear of being around there wife every day all day, but there was also the fear, and I always thought this was kind of strange, that the business couldn't get along without them and the place would fall apart as soon as they left, but the truth was on every occasion that I witnessed, a week after they were gone no body remembered they were there.

So I think making an artificial deadline on making a decision is a good idea. I have to play little tricks on my brain to get out and do things that need to be done every once in a while myself. But just keep in mind that you're not standing on a precipice deciding whether or not to jump and once that decision is made there's no turning back. All you're really doing is making a decision on whether or not you want to live in a small house that has wheels. Whatever changes there are after that, if anything, is totally up to you.

The best way to get Elk is to have a few friends that hunt, and when hunting seasons over everyone has too much Elk and will gladly give you some. That is way better than standing in the snow three miles from your truck looking at an animal the size of a horse laying at your feet wondering what do I do now.

By the way I would have to go with the monastery, I like the peace and quiet and I've got the vow of poverty thing down pat

Tom

2/12/2018 03:12:40 pm

Thanks Tom - I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to this in such a thoughtful manner. You always give me a lot to think about. If today was the day I had to decide, it would definitely be full time Rving in a 27-5L. Of course, tomorrow is another day in the life of this goose . . . yeah, definitely time to either fish or cut bait.

One thing that I found really interesting this weekend. I used to shoot an airgun sport called "Field Target" (great sport, but sold all my stuff in the downsizing for various reasons). I knew that there was quite a bit of Field Target in Arizona, so looked it up this weekend and in the winter they shoot at Ben Avery's! They're smart there in Arizona, because in the summer they go up into the mountains. It's not exactly Elk hunting, but it is a lot of fun, but can be really difficult. Got me thinking that maybe I would get one high end air rifle (instead of the dozen or so that I used to own) and shoot throughout the winter in Arizona. Heck, maybe even get back into archery - used to love 3D shooting (had way too many bows as well - just need to get one).

One analogy that sticks in my mind on retirement: I think about people who are on successful TV shows and then decide they are big shots and leave the show because they think they will be a big movie star, but "puff" nothing materializes and their careers are shot. That's kind of what worries me; okay, not that I won't be a movie star, but will regret quitting a decent job. However, I'm getting to the point where I won't be "retiring early" but just "retiring" which for some reason makes it easier. I don't have any allusions that this place will have any trouble without me; they'll do fine, but I do worry about some of the people. But, some day I won't be around, either sooner or later.

The other big fear is just the fear of the unknown, for some reason. But honestly, that is just life - we never know what tomorrow holds.

I am looking at taking a trip within the next month to see some 27-5L's. It's looking like the best bet is either Minnesota or Oregan (still cold in both places, but Minnesota is still a lot colder) - I don't think the dealership four hours away is going to have much because they are really small, but will be contacting them soon and may make that trip first.

2/12/2018 04:12:04 pm

I never got into the airgun thing, but at one time I thought about getting one for the Arctic Fox. I figured I could shoot it in places without disturbing people where I couldn't shoot a normal gun. But when I found out that the high quality airgun's are as loud or louder than a 22 I put the idea on hold.

Ben Avery's would be happy to see you. There's a great bunch of people there that are very helpful and welcoming and if you're into any gun sport you will fit right in.

I never shot the 3-D archery courses at Ben Avery's as I had sold my PSE compound before I went full-time. The bow and all the archery paraphernalia that I had was one of the many hobbies that I didn't have room for in the Arctic Fox. But I've seen the archery ranges both target and 3-D and their really nice. But bear in mind there not woodsy, there desertey.

Yeah when you retire early it's a whole different thing than just retiring. Retiring is required, retiring early is a decision. And it's almost always harder to make a decision that it is to do something that's required. I face that all the time because I don't like making decisions, there's too much responsibility involved.

I'm sympathetic to people that have problems retiring but I can't be empathetic because I can't imagine why people want to work instead of enjoying their life, inless working is the joy of their life. It doesn't sound like that would be one of your problems because like me you have a lot of hobbies and to me work just got in the way of my hobbies. I only worked because I had a family and hobbies to support. And as soon as I got in a financial position where I no longer had to work, I didn't. And there were no regrets, no remorse, no looking back and absolutely no desire to ever do that again.

The fear of the unknown. Now there is an excellent, understandable, and viable reason not to take that leap into the dark abyss of change. Some of that fear is good, it keeps us from doing some really stupid things. But too much of it cripples us and occasionally causes us to miss out on a better life.

After careful study I've made the leap into the abyss several times and every time its changed my life for the better. In fact I can't think of a single time in my life that I've made a drastic change and it didn't turn out for the better. Maybe I've been lucky, maybe being happy is all in my mind, or possibly I see opportunity in any situation. Either way change has always benefited me.

I think once you open the door and take a few steps in the direction you want to go the journey itself will start pulling you along. When you walk into a trailer that you like, it will feel like a place you can make into a home and from then on you will be focused on the journey and your old life will just be in the way.

Tom

2/12/2018 06:35:44 pm

Field Target people are some of the nicest people on earth. They are extremely helpful, but when it's time to get serious, they can definitely buckle down and concentrate. It's a difficult sport because the pellets are so light that the wind is a factor, as well as the loft of the pellet, the type of pellet, the weight of the pellet (I used to weigh each pellet for competition), etc. There is a lot to consider.

As far as noise goes, some of my airguns were really loud and others were very quiet. It just depends on what you want and how powerful you want them. I had a few springers that you could hardly hear, but some of the PCP guns were almost like .22's (but not quite as loud). The main thing is once you get set up (which isn't cheap for a higher end gun), the actually shooting is not expensive.

I do feel a change coming and I agree that most changes in my life have been good, even many that didn't seem good at the time. I think you're right that when I find the right trailer, it will be easier to make a decision (my bet is still on the 27-5L, but we'll see).

Doing archery in the Arctic Fox probably would be too much. I had a lot of ancillary equipment for that hobby. The air rifle wouldn't be too bad if I kept it to one gun, although it can get out of hand too if not careful.

Not retiring is not a logical thing - I've run the numbers, I know that I don't need to work anymore (if I keep my expenses under control, get a trailer, etc.) and realize that I have more money than time at this point in my life, but it's a tough step to take. However, when it's done, I don't think there will be much looking back.

Thanks again!

2/12/2018 09:03:12 pm

Sometimes I miss my bow which is kind of strange since I really don't miss any of my guns. But when I'm in a place like Ben Avery's where I could shoot a bow it makes me wish I had one. But I'm kind of like you, my hobbies tend to get out of hand and sometimes grow to such a size and expense that its not fun anymore. But if I had brought a bow with me I would have to have a target butt to shoot at when I'm out in the desert like now and that would take up a lot of space so even though I enjoyed shooting a bow I had to let it go.

If you're ever interested in how much it cost to live the way I do I'll be glad to give you some numbers. The cost of full timing was one of the main things I was interested in when I was preparing for this lifestyle, but now after some experience I would say generally it will cost as little or as much as you want it to depending on the lifestyle you want to live and that's another good thing about full timing, the cost is very flexible.

No matter how you live your going to have to pay for a roof over your head, food on the table, utilities, etc. etc. and there's not much you can do to drastically change that. But living in an RV, boondocking drastically changes the cost of the roof over your head, going to a warm place in the winter drastically changes your utility bill, staying in temperate climates drastically changes the amount of clothes you need. With a little imagination the RVing lifestyle cannot only be lived inexpensively but with less stress and greater happiness because you will be wherever you want to be and be doing whatever you want to be doing.

Yes it is a tough step to take mostly because it's such an alien lifestyle, most people just don't live like this, nor do they want to. Which is good because this lifestyle isn't suitable for most people. That's why I always try to tell people you can try the full-time lifestyle without burning your bridges. You can tow a trailer around the country for a year doing things you like to do and if it doesn't work out the worst that happens is you have a vacation trailer sitting in the front yard of your new house.

Tom

2/13/2018 08:49:35 am

If you felt comfortable doing it, it would be great to hear about your actual numbers. In fact, that would make a great blog post that I'm sure a lot of other people would be really interested in as well. If you would prefer to not make it public, I would be happy to send you my e-mail.

I'm thinking that once I buy the truck and RV, install the solar panels (although I might delay this for a while to see how I prefer to RV), batteries, and any other initial purchase, that I could live really well on $2,500 - $3,000 a month (the biggest expense would probably be health insurance at ~ $500 - $600 a month, based on estimates I'm getting). I'm guessing the expenses would be higher at first until I felt more comfortable boondocking.

Now that I live in a smaller place than my house, I'm much more careful about getting involved in a hobby or any purchase for that matter. With an RV, I'll have to be even more diligent about it than where I'm at now (probably 10 times more diligent). My house would just absorb my hobbies and I still had basically empty rooms - it was unbelievable all the hobby stuff I had there. It is true when they say that after awhile your stuff owns you.

Some of my favorite memories where camping, especially in my Class C. The biggest stress was having to rush back on Sunday to get back to work - wouldn't have to worry about that. Sometimes I convince myself that I would be better off with a house in retirement, but that seems like such a boring limited way to spend what could be the most fun and free part of my life.

2/13/2018 11:38:50 am

Since I'm always trying to find something to write about in my blog I'll put some expense information in there either today or tomorrow. I have no problem making it public its just that I only recently went to using a spreadsheet and before it was just written on a piece of paper so I had to add everything up which I usually didn't bother to do.

Yeah living in an RV forces you to think more carefully about your purchases especially hobby stuff. When I see something I would like to buy my very first thought is, where am I going to put this? And the usual answer is, I don't have a place for that. So you have to want something really really bad to let it take up valuable living space. And after a while you have to get into the concept of something in, something out. Because the RV will only carry so much weight before the tires, bearings and axles will start punishing you for your pack rat ways.

If camping on vacation was fun, then camping full-time is even better. But like I said in the past getting camping out of your mind and thinking that this is real life is harder to do than it would seem. It's a whole different experience when you come to the realization that you have to do EVERYTHING on the road instead of putting it off until you get home.

Sitting in your easy chair at night sipping a beer and realizing that this is your life takes some getting used to and that's going to take some time, but it will happen.

To me living in a house again would be incredibly boring. Yes I could go places but I would always have to worry about my house and the stuff in my house. So living on the road not only allows me to remove as much stress and anxiety out of my life as possible it forced me to get rid of most of my possessions which was causing a lot of stress and anxiety.

Tom

2/13/2018 02:30:45 pm

Thanks Tom - I'm looking forward to your blog post on expenses;

Yeah, it's amazing how much effort it takes to keep up with stuff. When I had a house and used to travel in the winter, I was always worried that my furnace would go out (which it did every once in while, but always while I was in town) and I would come home to frozen pipes. Really glad those days are over.

BTW, if today was the day I had to decide, I would be calling an RV dealer out west and buying an Arctic Fox over the phone sight unseen. Not that it was a bad day, just ready to go.

2/13/2018 03:45:50 pm

I'm going to have to put my expenses on the blog tomorrow, I spent too much time today running around the desert looking at campsites today to dig up my papers and figure out what the chicken scratchings actually mean.

I know all about frozen pipes and I've had more than my share both in houses and in RVs. And I'm really glad those days are over also.

For a procrastinator like myself often the only time anything gets done is when I'm ready. So for you to be "ready to go" means the future is starting to become more important to you than the past or the present, and that's when progress begins to get made.

Tom

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